There was a discussion among seekers about the nature of ultimate liberation. Some argued that direct instruction is the decisive factor in attaining that highest state. But it was clarified that such instruction applies only to those who are still within the realm where such guidance is relevant. For those who have transcended, the situation is different. Furthermore, it was explained that the liberated condition is described as being connected with transformation—implying a fundamental change that distinguishes the liberated from the unliberated. This truth is not only taught in the scriptures but is also evident through direct perception and inference; one can observe and reason about the transformation that takes place. Additionally, it was noted that the sign of this state is simply the similarity of enjoyment, indicating that the liberated soul experiences a joy akin to that of ultimate fulfillment. And finally, the most decisive assurance was given: there is no return for the liberated soul. This is stated explicitly in the scriptures—not once, but twice—emphasizing that liberation is final, and the soul does not return to the cycle of birth and death.