Janaka, the wise king, reflected deeply on the nature of happiness and liberation. He observed that through constant association with women and enjoyment, a man finds happiness, but in their absence, he suffers greatly. Thus, he wondered aloud: how can one ever be truly liberated while living amidst such attachments? He then addressed the subtlety of violence in sacrifice. Janaka noted that although violence is apparent in sacrificial rites, it is nonetheless called non-violence, for violence arises only due to specific conditions. This, he said, is the settled conclusion. Just as smoke appears in fire because of fuel, but when the fuel is gone, the fire burns without smoke, so too does violence arise only when there is attachment. Janaka explained to the sages that non-violence, as taught in the Vedas, is itself violence for those who are attached, but for those who are free from desire, it is not considered so. Actions performed without attachment and ego, the wise declare, are not truly actions at all. For householders, he acknowledged, violence in sacrifice does exist; yet whatever is done without attachment and ego is true non-violence for seekers of liberation who have mastered themselves. Then Śuka, the sage, spoke. He described the rites of his marriage and addressed the king with a lingering doubt in his heart: how can one living amidst illusion become free from desire? Even after attaining knowledge of the scriptures and discerning the eternal from the transient, he lamented, the mind does not abandon its delusion. How, then, does one attain liberation? Śuka pointed out that scriptural understanding alone cannot dispel the darkness within, just as darkness does not vanish merely by lighting a lamp. He insisted that non-injury toward all beings should always be practiced by the wise, but questioned how this could be maintained by a householder. The desires for wealth and royal pleasures are not easily calmed, nor is the urge for victory in battle subdued. How, then, can one be liberated while living? He observed that among thieves, the mind is that of a thief; among ascetics, the mind is saintly. Even for the king, the sense of 'mine' and 'other' persists—how then can one be free from embodiment? The king experiences harsh, sharp, bitter, and sour tastes, and perceives both auspicious and inauspicious things. His mind delights in what is auspicious, but not in what is inauspicious. Śuka continued, noting that waking, dreaming, and deep sleep are the king’s states, each occurring according to time. He wondered how the fourth state, beyond these, could ever be attained. The king commands foot soldiers, horses, chariots, and elephants—does he truly think himself master of all, or not? He remarked that the king is pleased when eating delicious food and distressed otherwise; whether adorned with a garland or a snake, where is equanimity? But the liberated one regards earth, stone, and gold alike, acting for the welfare of all beings with single-minded awareness. Śuka declared that his mind no longer delights in home, wife, or possessions. His resolve was to wander alone, utterly free from desire—detached, peaceful, eating leaves, roots, and fruits, roaming like a deer, without duality or possessions. What use, he asked, are a house, wealth, or a beautiful wife to one whose mind is detached and has transcended the qualities? He accused the king of concern for various forms and attachments, calling his claim of liberation mere pretension. Sometimes the king worries about enemies, sometimes about wealth, sometimes about armies; when, he asked, is he truly free from care? Even the Vaikhānasa sages, who eat moderately and have mastered vows, become deluded in worldly life, despite knowing its falsity. Śuka told the king that those born in his lineage are called 'Videha,' but that this name is crooked and never otherwise. Just as a Vidyādhara is ignorant, a person born blind is the sun, or a wealthy man is poor—their names are meaningless. All the kings of his lineage whom he had heard of were renowned as 'Videha' by name, but not by their deeds. He recounted the story of Nimi, the king, who was once in Janaka’s family. For the sake of a sacrifice, Nimi invited his guru, the sage Vasiṣṭha, who told him he had already been invited by Indra for a sacrifice. Vasiṣṭha promised to perform Nimi’s sacrifice after completing Indra’s, asking the king to prepare the materials in the meantime. Vasiṣṭha departed, and Nimi appointed another guru and performed a great sacrifice. When Vasiṣṭha heard of this, he became angry and cursed Nimi: “Your body will fall today for neglecting your guru.” Nimi, in turn, cursed Vasiṣṭha: “Yours too shall fall.” Both fell by each other’s curse. Śuka asked how the guru himself became cursed by Videha, saying this question shone in his mind like a diversion. Janaka responded, affirming that what Śuka had spoken was true and nothing false. Yet, he asked Śuka to listen further, saying his guru was greatly honored. He noted that Śuka was abandoning his father’s company to go to the forest, where he would have close association with animals. The great elements are everywhere, Janaka said—where would Śuka be free from attachment? There would always be concern for food; how could he be carefree? Janaka compared Śuka’s worries about his staff and deer-skin in the forest to his own worries about the kingdom, whether he thought of them or not. He pointed out that Śuka, afflicted by doubt, had come from a distant land, but Janaka himself had no doubt or uncertainty and was entirely free from all wavering. He concluded, saying, “O Brahmin, I sleep happily, I eat happily in every way; I am never bound in my mind, and always content, O sage.