The wise king and the sage continued their profound dialogue on the nature of the Self, bondage, and liberation. The king, addressing the sage, began by explaining that the true Self, the changeless and stainless essence within all, can never be grasped directly by the senses. It is only known through inference. How, he asked, could such a pure and immutable reality ever be bound? He continued, “O twice-born one, it is the mind that stands at the root of both pleasure and pain. If the mind is purified, then indeed, everything becomes pure. One may travel to all the sacred places and bathe countless times, but unless the mind itself is cleansed, all such external acts are in vain.” He spoke further: “It is neither the body, nor the individual soul, nor the senses that are the true cause of bondage or liberation. It is the mind alone, O scorcher of foes, that binds or frees a person. The Self is always pure, always free, never truly bound. Bondage and liberation are concepts that arise in the mind; when the mind attains peace, these notions fade away.” “Consider also,” the king said, “that the distinctions of enemy, friend, and stranger are only constructs of the mind. How can division arise in the underlying unity of existence, except through the perception of duality? In truth, the individual soul is always Brahman; no further inquiry is needed. The sense of difference exists only in the realm of worldly experience.” He continued, “Ignorance, O noble one, is dispelled by knowledge. The wise must always discern between knowledge and ignorance, for just as shade cannot be known without sunlight, so too, knowledge is known only in contrast to ignorance. The senses engage with their objects, and qualities act among qualities, but what fault can there be in the Self for this?” The king explained that the boundaries established in the Vedas serve to protect all beings. Without these, the destruction of dharma would occur, as happened among the Buddhists. When dharma is lost, the proper conduct of the castes is destroyed and transgressed. Therefore, auspiciousness comes to those who follow the path prescribed by the Vedas. At this, Śuka, the sage, spoke up: “O King, doubt still lingers in my heart and will not go away. What you have said does not resolve it. In the Vedic path, I see violence and unrighteousness. How can the dharma taught in the Vedas bring liberation? I see acts such as drinking soma, killing animals, and eating flesh prescribed directly. Even in the Sautrāmaṇī rite, drinking liquor and gambling are mentioned, along with various vows.” Śuka recalled the ancient king Śaśabindu, renowned for his righteousness, generosity, and devotion to sacrifice. From the skins of animals offered in his sacrifices, a mountain arose, rivaling the Vindhya range, and from the washing of clouds and water, the river Carmanvatī was born. Yet, despite his fame and piety, Śuka’s mind remained unconvinced about the righteousness of Vedic dharma. He pressed further: “Through association with women and constant enjoyment, a man attains happiness, but in their absence, he suffers. How then can one be liberated while living?” Janaka, the king, replied with insight: “Violence in sacrifice is apparent, yet it is considered non-violence. Violence arises due to particular conditions; this is the settled conclusion. Just as smoke arises from fire when there is fuel, but disappears when the fuel is gone, so too does violence arise from attachment and desire. For those free from desire, even actions that appear violent are not truly so.” He explained, “Whatever action is performed without attachment and ego, the wise declare such action as not truly done. For householders, violence in sacrifice may be present, but when actions are undertaken without attachment and ego, that is true nonviolence. This is the path for those seeking liberation who have mastered themselves.” At this point, the tale notes that Śuka’s marriage and the related rites took place. Yet Śuka’s heart was not at rest. He said, “O great king, a doubt remains in my heart: How can one living amidst illusion become free from desire? Even after attaining scriptural knowledge and discerning the eternal from the transient, the mind does not abandon delusion. How, then, is liberation possible?” He continued, “Scriptural understanding alone cannot dispel the darkness within, just as lighting a lamp does not make darkness vanish completely. The wise should always practice non-injury toward all beings, but how can a householder, engaged in worldly life, truly maintain this ideal?” Śuka spoke of the persistent desires for wealth, royal pleasures, and victory in battle, wondering how liberation could be attained while such urges remained. He observed that the mind adopts the qualities of its company—be it thieves or ascetics—and the sense of ‘mine’ and ‘other’ persists even for a king. How, then, could one be free from identification with the body? He described the experiences of taste—harsh, sharp, bitter, and sour—and the mind’s delight in what is auspicious, its aversion to what is not. He noted the three states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, questioning how the fourth, transcendental state could be attained. He reflected on power and possessions: “I command foot soldiers, horses, chariots, and elephants. I am the master of all—do I think so, or do I not?” Śuka pointed out the king’s pleasure in delicious food and distress in its absence, asking, “Where is equanimity, O best of kings, in pleasure and pain, in garlands or snakes?” He described the truly liberated one as regarding earth, stone, and gold alike, acting always for the welfare of all with a single-minded awareness. He confessed, “Today, my mind finds no delight in home, wife, or possessions. My resolve is to wander alone, utterly free from desire—detached, peaceful, eating only leaves, roots, and fruits, roaming like a deer, without duality or possessions.” Thus, through their dialogue, the king and the sage explored the deepest questions of bondage, liberation, and the path to true freedom, each seeking clarity in the light of wisdom.