The web of desires is difficult to overcome and does not bring peace; thus, to find tranquility, one must gradually renounce worldly cravings. Just as someone lying down cannot fall, but one sleeping atop a height is at risk of falling, so too a renunciant who deviates from the path finds it hard to return. Progress on this path is best made slowly and steadily—like an ant that climbs from the root to the branch, step by step, reaching the fruit at its own pace. Unlike a bird that flies swiftly, ignoring obstacles but growing weary, the ant, pausing as needed, comfortably attains its goal. The mind, strong in its desires, cannot be subdued by those lacking self-mastery. It must be tamed gradually, in accordance with the stages of life. Even while living as a householder, one who is peaceful, wise, and self-controlled should remain unaffected by gain or loss, neither rejoicing nor grieving, maintaining equanimity. By performing one’s duties without attachment or anxiety, and being content in self-realization, one attains liberation—there is no doubt about this. See, even though I am established in kingship, I am liberated while living, O sinless one. I wander as I please, and nothing arises within me. Enjoying various pleasures and performing many duties, I remain unchanged; in the same way, O sinless one, you too will become free. Everything that is seen or unseen is said to be bound—how could it be otherwise? The visible things are the five elements and their qualities. The self is known only by inference, never by direct perception; how then, O Brahmin, could that changeless, stainless one ever be bound? The mind is the chief cause of pleasure and pain, O twice-born; when it becomes pure, everything becomes pure. Wandering to all the sacred places and bathing repeatedly, if the mind is not purified, all else is useless. Neither the body, nor the individual soul, nor the senses—O scorcher of foes—but the mind alone is the cause of bondage and liberation for human beings. The self is always pure and free, never bound at any time; bondage and liberation reside only in the mind, and when it is peaceful, they cease. Enemy, friend, and indifferent—all distinctions are mental; how can division arise in unity, except through the perception of duality? The individual soul is always Brahman; there is no need for further inquiry here. The notion of difference operates only in worldly existence. This ignorance, O noble one, is dispelled by knowledge; the wise must always discern between knowledge and ignorance. Just as shade cannot be known without sunlight, so without ignorance, how can one know knowledge? Qualities act among qualities, and beings likewise; the senses engage with their objects—what fault is there in the self regarding this? Boundaries were established in the Vedas for the protection of all; otherwise, the destruction of dharma would occur, as happened among the Buddhists, O sinless one. When dharma is destroyed, the conduct of the castes is lost and transgressed; therefore, auspiciousness comes to those who follow the path prescribed by the Vedas. Śuka then spoke: O King, doubt persists in me and never ceases; what you have spoken, as I listen, does not resolve it, O ruler of men. In Vedic dharma, violence is found, and it is full of unrighteousness; how can the dharma spoken in the Vedas bestow liberation, O King? Directly, improper acts are seen: drinking soma, O King, killing animals, and likewise eating flesh. In the Sautrāmaṇī rite, drinking liquor is prescribed directly; gambling is also mentioned, along with various vows. It is heard that long ago there was Śaśabindu, O foremost king; he was devoted to sacrifice, always righteous, generous, and an ocean of truth. He protected the bridges of dharma and ruled over those who strayed from the path; he performed many sacrifices and gave abundant gifts. From the skins used in sacrifice, a mountain arose, equal to the Vindhya range; from the washing of clouds and water, the auspicious river Carmanvatī was born. That king too went to heaven, and his fame is immovable on earth; thus, regarding dharma in the Vedas, my mind does not incline. Through association with women and constant enjoyment, a man attains happiness; in their absence, he suffers greatly—how then can one be liberated while living? Janaka replied: Violence in sacrifice is apparent, yet it is called non-violence; violence arises due to conditions, and this is the settled conclusion. Just as smoke arises in fire from the presence of fuel, so, when that is absent, the fire appears without smoke. Understand, O best of sages, that nonviolence as taught in the Vedas is itself violence for those who are attached; for those free from desire, it is not considered so. Whatever action is performed without attachment and without ego, the wise and learned in the Vedas declare it as not truly done. For householders, O best of twice-born, the violence involved in sacrifice is indeed present; but whatever action is performed without attachment and without ego—that is true nonviolence, O illustrious one, for seekers of liberation who have mastered themselves. Then, the description of Śuka’s marriage and related rites was given. Śuka said: O great king, a doubt remains in my heart: How can one living amidst illusion become free from desire? Even after attaining scriptural knowledge and discerning the eternal from the transient, the mind does not abandon delusion; how then is a person liberated? Scriptural understanding is not capable of cutting away the darkness within; just as darkness does not vanish merely by lighting a lamp.