In a private chamber, away from Vidura’s presence, Duryodhana and Karna finally spoke their minds to Dhritarashtra. They questioned his intentions, wondering what he meant to do, now that they could speak freely. Duryodhana accused his father of treating the rise of their rivals—the Pandavas—as if it were his own gain, and of openly praising Vidura, known as Kshatta, before everyone. He pointed out that, while one duty called, Dhritarashtra acted on another, neglecting the need to weaken the Pandavas’ growing power. Duryodhana insisted that they must plan carefully, so that the Pandavas, along with their sons, allies, and strength, would not overpower them. Dhritarashtra listened to his son and Karna, and replied that he too wished to act as they did, but preferred to keep his intentions regarding Vidura hidden. He explained that he would continue to praise Vidura, so that Vidura would not suspect anything from his gestures. Then Dhritarashtra invited Duryodhana and Karna to speak freely—whatever they thought appropriate or timely, they should quickly tell him. Dhritarashtra proposed several schemes. He suggested dividing the sons of Kunti and the Pandavas born of Madri, using skilled, loyal Brahmins. Alternatively, he thought they could entice King Drupada, his ministers, and sons with lavish wealth, so that Drupada might abandon Yudhishthira, or arrange for the Pandavas to remain where they were. He advised that agents describe faults in their dwelling, each separately, so that the Pandavas would fix their minds on staying divided. He also suggested that clever men, skilled in intrigue and loyal to them, sow discord among the Pandavas, turning them against one another. Or, Krishna could be separated from them, as she had many connections, or used as a means to divide the Pandavas, and then separated herself. Dhritarashtra even proposed that Bhimasena, the strongest among the Pandavas, be killed by deceitful men, for Bhima was fierce, valiant, and their chief refuge. Without him, Dhritarashtra believed, the Pandavas’ spirit and strength would crumble, and they would not strive for the kingdom. He noted that Arjuna was invincible in battle when protected by Bhima, and that without Arjuna, Karna was not his equal. Knowing the Pandavas’ weakness without Bhima, Dhritarashtra believed they would not contend with the stronger Kauravas. He suggested that, when the Pandavas returned and were under their command, they could act according to the treatises to suppress them. If any among them were proud and boastful, others could divide the sons of Drupada. Each son of Kunti could be enticed by beautiful women, causing Krishna to lose interest in them. Karna could be sent to bring them together, and loyal agents could destroy them by various means. Dhritarashtra urged that, of all these strategies, whichever was considered blameless, should be carried out quickly before the opportunity passed. He emphasized that, as long as Drupada had not placed his trust in the Pandavas, they were vulnerable; after that, they could not be overcome. He concluded that his opinion leaned toward suppressing the Pandavas, and asked Karna for his thoughts. Karna, however, disagreed. He told Duryodhana that his judgment was not sound, for the Pandavas, enhancers of the Kuru lineage, could not be subdued by stratagem. Karna reminded Duryodhana that subtle means had already been tried to suppress them, but had failed. Even when the Pandavas were young and vulnerable, living nearby, Duryodhana had not been able to harm them. Now, grown and strong, living in another land, Karna was convinced that the sons of Kunti could not be subdued by any means. He asserted that neither misfortune nor fate could remove them, and that they were capable and eager to claim the status of their fathers and grandfathers. No division could be created among them, for those devoted to a single wife do not break apart. Krishna could not be separated from them, as she had stayed with them even in destitution—how much more now, when they were prosperous? Karna explained that the most desired quality for women was to have many husbands, and Krishna had attained that, making her inseparable from them. He added that the son of Panchala, King Drupada, followed a noble vow and was not greedy for wealth; he would not abandon the sons of Kunti, even for a kingdom. Likewise, Drupada’s son was virtuous and devoted to the Pandavas. Therefore, Karna did not believe the Pandavas could be subdued by any means. Still, Karna urged that action must be taken now, before the Pandavas firmly established themselves. Until then, they must be struck down, for their side was strong only while the Panchala party was weak. He advised acting with vigor before the Pandavas acquired abundant vehicles, allies, and clans. As long as King Drupada had not set his mind on action with his mighty sons, Karna insisted, they should act decisively. Thus, in this tense and secretive council, the Kauravas debated how best to counter the growing strength of the Pandavas, weighing schemes and strategies, but facing the reality of the Pandavas’ unity, virtue, and unwavering support.